| AP/DDN CHL records roundtable: Another Perspective |
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| Written by Jeff Garvas | |
| Saturday, 07 May 2005 | |
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By Brian Horton OFCC TeamLeader & CCW-Talk Moderator I think that the DDN round table at Sinclair College went very well. Like Larry Moore I was pleasantly surprised that this really was a fair discussion. I thought Dr. Richard D. Stock, director of the University of Dayton’s Business Research Group, did a superb job of moderating by being fair and balanced with both sides and did a good job of moving the discussion along and making sure every one on the panel was able to participate. I as well believe that the DDN really does want to know what we think on the issue. I also believe that while Jeff Bruce is Editor of the DDN they won’t be publishing CHL lists. Most people that were there were for keeping the records private. A few people said they should be open to the public but make it so the media is not allowed to publish lists and that way a citizen has to go down to the sheriff’s office and make a request. Over all I think that there were 3 panelists that did not really know much about the issue or have strong opinions on CCW before the evening started. By the end of the evening two of the three thought the records should be closed and the third seemed to be OK with CCW but thought that basically all government records should be open. Chief Julian Davis or the Dayton Police Department was a pleasant surprise. Typically police chiefs of large cities are anti CCW or hesitant to approve CCW. Chief Davis stated several times that CHL holders are the good guys and they aren’t worried about them at all. He and Major Bush from Montgomery County Sheriff's Dept. both supported CCW and closing the records. Click on the "Read More..." link below for more. I was surprised that Patti Schwarztrauber, executive director of Artemis Center, (a place that helps women who have be the victims of domestic violence) was for open records and was against CCW in general. She said that the records should be open and published to that DV victims can check to see if the person who was stalking them or abused them had a CHL. She also said that the CCW law allows people with misdemeanor DV convictions or charges to get a CHL. Larry tried to explain to her that anyone with a recent assault or violence misdemeanor conviction or pending charges, or who is subject to a protective order can not get or have a CCW. Incredibly, she refused to believe him. (Apparently she knows everything there is to know about the CCW law and Larry is an idiot!) She could not see that publishing open records would expose and jeopardize the safety of any rape or DV victim who had a CHL. She said her group never advises a battered woman to get a gun for protection since the gun is “more likely to be used against her”. Apparently if you are a DV victim who does not come to Artemis Center for help and you choose to arm yourself instead, you are not worth helping or protecting. Julie Weindel, News Director WHIO-TV, Channel 7 and DDN editor Jeff Bruce both were for opening the CHL records to the public, saying that they felt the media being the only ones with access to the list felt uneasy about that set up. They both said that the list should at least remain available to them as it helps them runs stories about CHL holders since they can find people to contact and it helps them do research and answer questions that readers have about what kind of people the CHLer’s are. (Average age, typical job, etc) Jeff Bruce said that he would like to see more information available, as in home addresses so that the media could do more statistical research and see things like where do most CHLer’s live ect. I was able to point out to him during the audience questions and comments period that while the DDN has not published any lists yet several other papers in Ohio have done so. I then referenced statements about how criminals are too dumb to use such a list to find gun robbery victims. I then pointed out that I know of 3 separate robberies that occurred in the last six months in the SW Ohio area where the person robbed had placed a classified add in the paper to sell something and the respondent came by to look at it but instead robbed them. I also should have added that in the last year two women in Ohio have been raped using this method. Weindel and Bruce seemed to bristle when Larry brought up instances of obvious and extreme bias against guns in the media. I think we got through to them that we see the opening and ending of their Sunday article and the inclusion of Toby Hoover being a crime victim while omitting that about Chad’s father in our opinion slanted it against CCW and keeping records private. My personal impression was that Julie Weindel came across as being against CCW and Jeff Bruce was maybe OK with it as long as there were restrictions about where we can carry and training requirements. He could be a more may-issue kind of guy. Kristin McAllister, reporter for the DDN, said that she is a hobby target shooter and she has done some articles on CCW training. It seemed that she was OK with the CCW law. She also seemed to be for open records to the media and public. Gary Daniels from ACLU played it about how I expected them to. He never gave a position concerning CCW in general. He flatly stated that since the ACLU was both a big supporter of privacy rights and a big supported of government transparency and open records that the ACLU was a conscious fence straddler on this issue. All of the pro-gun folks (Bill Jarrett, Jeff Pedro, Bob Langham, Bob Mullins, Gary Robbins, and of course Larry Moore) did a great job representing our side of the issue. Each of them spoke very well and made excellent points. State Rep. Tom Brinkman also provided some good commentary on how the CCW bill became a law. I think that Larry did a stupendous job representing the OFCC. He was very well prepared and due to time constraints I doubt he hit on 20% of what he was prepared to talk about. There were two people who spoke that were of very much against CCW and quite irrational about in my opinion. Terry Clark was on the panel and said that she wants the lists published and more info made available. She said that she should have the right to know who carried guns so that she can stay away from them and keep them away from her children. Joe Hauser was an audience member who participated and seeming the perfect example of the “Raging Against Guns” type of fear of self projectionist. His statement, "I feel I have every right to know you can instantaneously shoot me dead." Was quoted in the AP story and he also made statement that he would like to know if anyone he is friends with has a CHL so he can avoid being around that person because he doesn’t want to chance making that person mad then having that person kill him. Both these people were deaf to the statements by the law enforcement representatives who were there that CHL holders are not criminals and are non violent. Sitting in the audience I got to hear and see a few people’s reactions to the discussion. The fellow sitting next to me appeared to be with the DDN. You could easy tell he was very much against CCW and was of the irrational fear, people with guns will kill me type. I tried giving him a few statistics from the state AG’s involving the crime rate of CCW holders in Florida and Texas versus the law enforcement community and the general populace. He didn’t believe anything I told him. I was glad I was able to bring up Toby Hoover’s statement that CHL list should be published and that business owners and HR people should check those lists before making employment decisions. Tom Brinkman touched on it as well. It seems we made an impression on the AP writer in that respect since it was mentioned in the AP article. All in all it went very well. I had a great time meeting the pro gun guys and I got to meet Larry in the person for I think the first time. Jana Collier was very gracious and did come across as very appreciative of our attendance and participation. I would could the round table discussion as a victory for the OFCC and CCW in Ohio. My score would be 10-6-1 among the panelists in our favor on this CHL open records discussion. I am greatly interested to see what the DDN will write about this forum. I think the one thing that everyone there could agree on was that Taft's media only access to the records idea was a bad one. Of course some people want them public and some people want them private. |